Address forms
Address forms | Andrew Packett | November 21st, 1999
Anybody out there currently doing IIC? Just got the file and the stuff on address forms (1.5 - 1.10) tied in with an incident in one of my classes a few weeks ago when a student beckoned me over and quietly asked 'how do we refer to you?'.
I repeated what I'd said at the beginning of term - that I would be calling them by their first names and they should feel free to do likewise - but, of course, in doing that I'm imposing my own relatively informal culture on theirs. And even after 4 years in a Portuguese university I still feel uncomfortable being referred to daily by admin staff as 'S'tor' (meaning 'Senhor Doutor').
As I've only ever worked in Iberian contexts I'd be interested in knowing how you negotiate your way through address forms in other parts of the world.
Andrew Packett
Re: terms of address | Jonathan Clifton | November 22nd, 1999
Yes, I also introduce myself by my first name for all lessons but (depending on the type of students) often they are uncomfortable with this and revert to Mr. Clifton or monsieur (equivalent perhaps of sir) and if we speak in French it is the "vous" and not "tu" form. For me this is totally inappropriate. For them it is respect. I explain to them that in the UK we use first names much more easily and that Mr. X is often regarded as distance rather than respect. I try, but I don't know how many students make the leap. I've been living in France for about ten years. I understand the rules of tu and vous etc but am never sure in practice. Can I really expect my students to understand cultural appropriacy after a few lessons if I still don't know what is culturally appropriate in France after ten years?
Best wishes to all
Jonathan Clifton
Re: address forms | Tom Bloor | November 22nd, 1999
Some fairly random and unrehearsed thoughts on Andrew's email: This is a very tricky issue, but my feeling is that the general principle to observe is that the host culture calls the shots. Certainly as far as address is concerned, I think that by and large one should conform to the social custom of the host community. This is a question of courtesy. If people are going to feel embarrassed to use your first name (T-form, or whatever) or shocked to hear others using it, why upset them? To insist seems to smack of ethnocentricity. If bowing is the norm, I think you should bow. If hand shaking is the norm, shake hands. I recall from some decades ago some bad feeling caused by what was seen as excessive informality (in address, dress, kinesics - sitting on the desk to teach, etc) on the part of some Peace Corps volunteers in Africa, construed by them as relaxed, democratic - even natural - behavior, but by some people as showing a lack of respect for the people, the country, the institution and the education system in general.
One problem is that the signals can be misconstrued; your students may think that informal address (or whatever) automatically entails a package that includes behavior patterns that you would not consider appropriate and so you may be unfairly misleading them and generating difficulties for yourself. On the other hand, it is sometimes hard to adapt without feeling that you are misrepresenting yourself or being untrue to your own personality or moral beliefs. Obviously, there may be norms of behavior that you would not want to condone. And there is also the very complicated and dangerous issue of 'teaching the target culture', whatever that might mean.
You might be able to gauge your relationship with your students well enough to decide that it is possible to go against local norms with impunity. Our policy at Aston LSU is to use first names, but we are dealing with matured students, already professionals in our own field, and from varied cultures. Even so, it is difficult for participants from some cultures to feel comfortable with this type of address, especially with the more ancient faculty members such as myself.
I haven't even mentioned the problem of determining what the norms are for any given society and how much leeway is conceivable or desirable. As a long-time admirer of eccentrics and nonconformists, I would be happier with a more liberal line on these issues, but I think that when one is not in one's own community, some kinds of deviation can cause problems - though I certainly would not claim that I have not gravely offended in my time.
Another problem for my conformist line is that stereotypically foreign behavior may be expected of you and encouraged.
On a cynical note, a Machiavellian point of view might be that you can get away with a lot more if you superficially conform.
It's a fascinating area, certainly.
Best
Tom Bloor
Re: Address forms | Nina Blair | November 23rd, 1999
I always introduce myself to students with my first and last name, knowing that some will use my first name as is customary on this campus, while others will be happier calling me Mrs. Blair. It's really up to them. The only form of address I balk at is "teacher". It's a holdover from the Japanese administration of the islands. It sounds so subservient to me and since many students will transfer from here to US schools, it seems appropriate to teach the connotation this form of address carries. What's even more interesting though is the array of connotations this term carries among American teachers, from too much respect to undeserved respect to too little respect. Some pick up on the teacher-student, greater/less knowledge/ability inference while others hone in on a 'hey you'/'I don't know or care to find out your name' interpretation. The latter boggles my own mind and is shocking to some of my Micronesian students. Who says language isn't a reflection of one's own experience of the world.
Happy Thanksgiving
Nina Blair
Re: Address forms | Steve Mann | November 25th, 1999
Dear all,
Interesting threads on address forms and death (sort of hello / goodbye). I am still smiling about the one the other day about 'my granny dieded'.
Nina reminded me that British kids have a lovely sneery way of saying teacher. It's not just the words is it? Teacher (the one who makes the tea).
When I started teaching kids used to call me Mr Mann - but some of the cheekier ones put the stress on the first syllable of Mr (MISter Mann) and it sounded like one the cartoon characters (Mister Angry, Mister Dozy - take your pick). Phonology has the same role to play in death; Keith's right about 'I'm sorry' and I think many people stress the am ( i AM sorry). If the 'sorry' carried the tonic syllable then it would be more like "gomenasai" in Cathy's comparison.
Take care
Steve
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