why isn't the dl used more often?

Why isn't the DL used more often? | Jerry Talandis Jr. | September 8th, 2002

Hi Mike,

One thing that shocked me when I first started was the lack of people using this discussion list. After I first signed up, I waited for several days before I got any messages. I thought I had made a mistake or something. It's not a resource used extensively by more than a few regulars, which is a shame. The vast responses you've gotten show that if anyone is willing to put themselves out there a wee bit, the benefits can be great. I don't really know why this list isn't used more; that is one of the questions I'd like to get an answer to as part of the DL module group that will start working together shortly. I really have gotten a lot from participating in this forum, way more than I have put into it. It's a great deal from all perspectives. I just wish others could realize the same. I'm looking forward to working with other DL members to help make the MSc learning experience better for everyone.

Cheers,

Jerry

Why isn't the DL used more often? | Mike McDonald | September 8th, 2002

I can't disagree with you that it's a pity not more people use the list. Still, I'm very grateful to those of you who do use it for making it such a useful resource. Perhaps it's a question of time for most people: I know

I've quit several very useful and interesting mailing lists simply because I didn't have the time to read them regularly. Lack of participation must be frustrating, though, I'm sure. I have long been a member of an organization in Japan called SWET (Society of Writers, Editors, and Translators), whose activities include monthly meetings in Tokyo at which well-established writers, editors, and translators give interesting talks for a token entrance fee. It is so frustrating for both speaker and organizer when a riveting talk has to be delivered to an audience of 2 or 3, especially when members complain that the society doesn't provide any interesting activities.

I suppose that's life, though.

Mike

Why isn't the DL used more often? | Darin Bicknell | September 8th, 2002

I assume that the list as it is doesn't suit everyone's needs. I think that a forum where a dialog can be followed from beginning to end and then re-read later and saved in context would be better.

Mail lists, although good for keeping resources low, doesn't work to maintain lively debate... forums are often better, but not necessarily- it depends on the topics. I find it hard to follow the thread at times when several questions are asked and answered within days of each other.

Anyhow here is hoping that a web page with a forum based environment and potential chat conferencing can be established in the near future.

Why isn't the DL used more often? | Jerry Talandis | September 8th, 2002

When I first started using this discussion list, I was very surprised to find that it was not in an Internet-based "forum" setting. These types of discussion pages are so common these days. They are easy to use and follow. I think discussion among CPs would increase if such a forum existed on the LSU homepage. Does anyone know any specific forum-making software? What is involved in setting it up and maintaining it?

Jerry

Re: Why isn't the used more often? | James Hobbs | September 9th, 2002

A lot of people seem to be in favor of a web-based discussion list, and I get the feeling that that's where we're heading. But I hope that this will be in addition to the current email format, and not in place of it.

Personally I'm quite happy with the current format, as it means I can download all the day's messages in a matter of seconds, and automatically have them all on file to browse at my leisure without going back on line. I wouldn't want to see it replaced with a system that required me to go on line every time I wanted to read an old message.

James

Re: Why isn't the DL used more often? | Darin | September 9th, 2002

That is not a problem and can be done with relative ease with the right person to set it up.

Darin 

Re: Why isn't the DL used more often? | Jenny | September 9th, 2002

Dear Discussion List:

I am one of the lurkers who reads the list but does not participate. I'm Jenny (de Sonneville) working at the Hendrik Kraemer Institute in the Netherlands, teaching English to adults who are going to work for development or church-related organizations.

So the question is why do people not participate?

Well, I think a lot is to do with personality type. Firstly I took a while to get around to joining the list. I was busy getting into my MSc and I had made useful contact with a couple of other participants (one in the

Netherlands where I live and others in N Europe). This contact has been very important for me and fortunately we are also able to meet up occasionally at Aston weekends. I also found going to summer school very important - being able to meet some participants and the tutors personally.

When I joined the discussion list several months ago, I didn't know - and to be honest I still don't understand - the exact procedures...or if there are any procedures. For example, I would like to know who the others on the list are. I am sure this is to do with personality type. Some just walk right into a room and join the group; others like to have an introduction round where they can see who the members of the group they are joining are. I saw emails from Jerry, Jake, Raymond, The Bicknells, Colin etc - but I have no idea who these people are and what there teaching situation is. OK, sometimes you can read that through the lines - but sometimes not. Some of the discussion seemed related to a context that is very different to mine.

(Do you notice that the largest number of people on the list are male or at least in the last few months while I have been a member? I wonder if this is significant? Is this impersonal method of communication less daunting for men?)

Perhaps I have just missed something. Perhaps there is a way to find out how many are on the list, who the others are and where they teach, how far they are with the MSc etc. If not, is there some way we can have participants introduce themselves is a short paragraph? It would become unmanageable if everyone did this individually - but I suppose an Internet forum would make this kind of information possible?

The other problem has been mentioned: time. Many of us have work, families, busy lives and it is difficult enough to get the time to concentrate on study. (I find the discussion on how to keep to task and the advice about reading strategies very useful. Thanks those who contributed!) I don't know how people who work and have families manage to finish the MSc in 2 years! I guess if you live near a center where you have access to much of the literature and you have one or two people to discuss your ideas and assignments with and you can put your social life a bit on a low key and you can keep in the flow - then it is possible. (It also helps if your working context finds the research you are doing useful).

I've been going for 2 years in October and have done FND, IIC, TD, MET, SLA, CSD. Almost finished MAP and have TDA and DL to do. Then DISS. I agree with the comment that it depends on your aim. For me, the aim is not so much the qualification, but professional enrichment - therefore I don't want to rush through the assignments. I want to see my work in relation to the "thinking" of others and then well, I guess it's the Action Research cycle, isn't it!

Therefore, I feel that sharing ideas and ways of promoting more interaction between participants are extremely important. Thanks to all who do contribute regularly,

Jenny

Discussion List | Paolo | September 9th, 2002

Hello everybody,

I'm Paul Crane, Japan participant, and I'm in the final stages of the Aston DL program (writing my diss). I've been a lurker the entire time. :-(

I agree a lot with what Jenny said about participation on the discussion list. I read every message and enjoy that aspect of it but at the same time feel like a loser for just "lurking". I guess it's just that I don't always feel that I have anything to share.

I think it's a great idea and a great forum for sharing ideas but I guess my personality type isn't necessarily the type to share "anonymously". I have been in contact with people that I've met at workshops (attended every single one here in Japan so far!) but don't feel that I have anything valuable to share on the discussion list. I know that's pretty ludicrous (sp?), but that's just how I've felt.

I'm very sorry about that, but keep up the great discussions. I especially enjoy it when the tutors share information. It makes me feel even more in contact with the program. Having said that, I think all of the tutors are helpful, friendly, humorous and always quick to get back with answers to questions.

Good luck to everybody on the program. It's been a great 4 (!!??!) years but I'm really looking forward to finishing my dissertation. By the way, I'm analyzing data that I collected regarding "recasts" or "reactive implicit negative feedback" and it looks to be very promising as a potential "methodology" for improving interlanguage. If anybody is interested, or is doing something similar, I'd be happy to discuss it.

Good luck to everybody!

Paul A. Crane
Nagoya, Japan

Re: Discussion List | Jenny de Sonneville | September 9th, 2002

Hi Paul

I guess we - the lurkers - are coming out!

It sounds to me like you have lots to share. I am fascinated by the sound of "reactive implicit negative feedback", but haven't got a clue what it is or how it could be a potential "methodology" for improving interlanguage. Maybe you could give you a short summary?

Good luck with finishing your dissertation!

Jenny

Why isn't this discussion list... | John Bartrick | September 9th, 2002

Hi everybody,

I've been doing the MSc for 4 years now and I have found the discussion list to be a great source of support. The group of people who send messages seems to grow and dwindle over time; I guess this is due to the commitment of senders and the particular chemistry created between them. Also my desire to send messages seems to change depending on what particular assignment I'm working on, or how much time I can afford.

At the beginning of the year I was working on DL and undertook an informal piece of local research on CP attitudes to the discussion list. For the complete list of findings, a good read, send me a message and I'll forward the attachment. Otherwise I'll just leave you with my conclusions to the question:

Are there times when you would like to contribute to a discussion but feel inhibited and decide not to do so?

In asking this question I was assuming that it is beneficial for the list to generate as many postings as possible from as many different participants. This is not to stress quantity ahead of quality but rather to foster an atmosphere of free exchange of opinion between peers. For this reason it is important to work towards identifying and eliminating something, i.e. feeling inhibited, which deters participant interaction.

There was a lively response to this question with a variety of sources of inhibition. The sociopolitical question of male dominance of this particular discourse community was raised and mirrored by the suggestion that non-natives are at a disadvantage in having their opinions validated. Participants new to the course also felt their views might not carry the weight of more experienced members. As if to complete the circle, one male native speaker participant nearing the end of the course said he might not always post when he wanted, at the risk of overpowering others. On the other hand several participants raised the point that there is a certain sense of duty to contribute to the discussion community and in this sense inhibition is something to be overcome. As with other types of community if all the talk is left to the few with the loudest voices then a healthy exchange of views is unlikely to occur.

Bye for now,

John
Ioannina, Greece

Re: Why isn't the DL used more often? | Darin | September 9th, 2002

There are plenty of open source versions for creating such a forum, however, the resources required to maintain it may not be available. Such as server space, maintenance and so forth... The reason why a discussion list is used I would guess is that it takes a lot less resources to maintain.

Darin

Discussion Lists | Andy | September 10th, 2002

Hello and welcome to the "lurkers"! I've been doing the MSc for just over 2 years and am working on CSD at the moment and then the final dissertation.

I find the discussion list excellent - I have used the list on several occasions to forward questionnaires concerning various issues I was researching and always got great responses. (Get ready for another questionnaire about needs analysis once I get round to working out the questions).

One suggestion I would have is for people studying the same module to get together on-line via MSN Messenger. If participants are wading through the same module files, it may be useful to arrange a time to meet to discuss some of the issues on-line.

In fact, my dissertation will be concerned with setting up an on-line version of teacher development and I will be looking for several participants who would like to work with me through this module. (But that's not until Dec/Jan/Feb)

Andy (an occasional lurker) in Japan - sounds like something you could be arrested for!!!

Discussion List discussion | Jerry Talandis Jr. | September 10th, 2002

Hi everyone,

Thanks for a real interesting discussion on why CPs seem to not use this discussion list very often. I've learned a lot from your comments. I'm especially pleased to see a few new people contribute. We are all the richer for your participation! :-)

Janin, you wrote, "someone said they'd put in a lot more than they'd gotten out of it." I think that was me, but if that's what I wrote, I was mistaken- I meant to say the opposite: I've gotten back way more than I feel I have put into this list. I could go on and on about the benefits I've received from all the support I've received.

When I began the program, I had a lot of questions. I was really hesitant to ask because I didn't want to look stupid. I knew that the same questions must be asked all the time. In addition, some of the messages were written at such a high level that I felt a little intimidated and unworthy. Still, I did manage to take a bit of a leap and get involved, and it's been great ever since.

For me, this discussion list really helps in several ways. Like Janin, I can "get down to some serious module work" after making a contribution. I use it as a tool for getting myself out of a rut- you know, that horrible pressure feeling you get when you know you need to be cracking the books but find yourself procrastinating. Also, like Janin notes, this list kind of serves as a virtual coffee shop where I can meet fellow students and chat. Just like in a cafe, sometimes the conversations get deep and heavy, and sometimes they are light and fun. I enjoy all kinds. I've found that one of the hardest parts of doing a DL program has been the inability to instantly meet and talk with other students, something you take for granted at a "bricks and mortar" school. Nothing can replace actually being with someone and talking face to face, but as it is, we have to do the best we can.

Janin, you say that it should not be a problem that the quantity of contributors is low. I agree it's not a "problem," per se, but more like "not an optimal situation." How many CPs are there? That email directory I got had hundreds of names. How many people regularly contribute? Hard to say, but it's a small percentage of the total number.

I'd like to see more people contribute because I really value what everyone has to say. One of the greatest things about this DL program is the ability to study with people from all over the world. It's quite a miracle to me that we have this ability to communicate globally so easily. I guess I feel like someone who's discovered this great thing and wants everyone to feel likewise. I understand that this type of "anonymous" form of communication is not for everyone, and that we are all busy, etc. Still, I want to support any effort to help increase the number of contributors, simply because it feels like the right thing to do.

Anyway, that's all for now. Thanks everyone for responding to my question.

Jerry

Writing conclusions | Richard Colclough | September 10th, 2002

Hello all,

I've been building up to contributing to the list again for a while and have finally been moved to do so by the recent discussion prompted by Jerry. I've had a terrible few months as far as the Masters is concerned, mainly due to a lot of uncertainty at work. I'm not trying to make excuses because they don't really make any difference to the amount of work done. On this matter, I was particularly interested in Raymond's comments about how cracking on with modules early on takes the pressure off in the later years of the course. I wish I was in that position but it's still fortunately not too late to take the advice.

As for why people may not contribute to the list, I certainly have sympathy with those who feel their contributions don't carry much weight. I also feel guilty about asking questions but not then feeling able to reply to the queries of others.

Well, I've been rabbiting on for a while so I'll end by thanking all you regular contributors!

Ted

 

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