circumlocution

Re: MET | Dawn | March 2nd, 2004

Hey Everyone!

I'm doing the MET and would love to especially hear from anyone who has ever taught in the Polish environment. For my MET assignment I've been working on the following focus:

Encouraging more use of circumlocution among adult beginner learners with an aim to decrease frustration whilst improving their fluency.

This is actually what I put forward in the FND module and although I have others in mind (yes, who doesn't always have action research to be done in the classroom, eh?) it is my main worry. There are loads of reasons for this, the most costly being that the students in question have until the end of December to come up to scratch or be fired. I have actually had to beg for even this and with the mounting unemployment here .... :-(

In light of all that, I would love to hear from anyone who is acquainted with the Polish learning reality in terms of the aforementioned focus area. What I want is some direction of where to find materials to back up my own findings.

Thanks for your help already.

Dawn M
Poland

Re: MET in Poland | Jerry Talandis Jr. | March 2nd, 2004

Hi Dawn,

I have some questions:

1. What is circumlocution, and why is it important for you in your situation? As I understand it, the term refers to the expression "to beat around the bush," (dance around the main point without ever stating it clearly). I can see how this would be useful for students, as it would get them to talk more... but am I understanding this correctly?

2. Why would your students be "fired?" Do you mean they are also working in addition to their studies, and that if they don't pass some test they will lose their jobs?

Just curious.

Jerry Talandis Jr.
Toyama Japan

PS: I have no idea about the situation in Poland, but my sister lives and works in Lithuania, your northern neighbor. Are there any similarities?

Re: MET-circumlocution | Dawn | March 3rd, 2004

Thanks Jerry for writing back.

To answer your question:

'What is circumlocution, and why is it important for you in yoursituation?'

Well, in the ELT situation, as far as I know, circumlocution mainly refers to the use of fillers/phrases to fill in the gap caused by a lack of words. For example, native speakers of English tend to use words such as 'thingy' or 'you know what I mean...' to get their point across when they can't find the word they're looking for. It (circumlocution) can also be widened to include hand-signals, antonyms, non-words (la la la) etc. Get me? It is important for me because I find that Polish students, esp. adult learners, might refuse to speak altogether for want of a word. This produces a high level of frustration and they either switch to L1 or stop talking or may even burst into tears!

Why would your students be "fired?" Well, my students in this particular situation work and I teach them English in company. At this level they don't learn only Business English as they are still hurdling over the elementary stages. One of the problems is that the firm has been paying for English lessons for quite some time and has just about had it with the folks that make up this group. You see, they are the ones who have not been able to progress acceptably and they have been given many chances. It's an international company and these folks are mainly from customer service and simply need to be able to converse adequately. In brief, they should have around 4 years of English behind them (2 with me) but still they cannot progress well. They have English twice a week and of over 60 staff members they are the only ones who aren't able to perform. (Most of the others started also from 'scratch' and some have become fluent in this time with me.) So far the circumlocution methods tried have really helped at least 1 of the two most 'important' (for work purposes, here) learners. I'm glad about that and that's why I need even more guidance here. Even if I resign from this for my MET assignment I'd love to hear if anyone has been successful using this.

Okay, that's all a mouthful. Waiting to hear from you all.

Dawn M

P.S. I know pretty well the causes behind the seeming impossibility of these particular students to learn English and circumlocution is just one of many methods tried, tested, failed or succeeded.

Re: MET-circumlocution | Jerry Talandis Jr. | March 3rd, 2004

Hello Dawn and Jake,

Thanks for your excellent definitions of "circumlocution." I'll add that to my "oh-yeah-I-know-what-that-means-but-didn't-know-the-name-for-it" list, along with "illocutionary force." I can see why it would be a good thing to learn how to do.

Jake, that card game is a good idea. Dawn, have you tried something like that?

Dawn, about your situation, it sounds pretty dire. From what you write, those poor students seem to have lots of problems picking up English. I can't imagine the pressure they must feel, knowing that if they don't learn this language they could lose their jobs! It's hard enough to learn without all that added stress. Good luck with everything.

Jerry
Japan

Re: Causes | Robert Haines | March 3rd, 2004

Dawn M., you wrote:

"I know pretty well the causes behind the seeming impossibility of these particular students to learn English and circumlocution is just one of many methods tried, tested, failed or succeeded."

I'd be interested to know what those pretty well-known (to you) causes are. Can you share them?

Jerry wrote:

"Thanks for your excellent definitions of "circumlocution." I'll add that to my "oh-yeah-I-know-what-that-means-but-didn't-know-the-name-for-it" list, along with 'illocutionary force.' I can see why it would be a good thing to learn how to do."

It's most likely that the students already know how to use circumlocution. They probably even use it in English albeit differently than we on this list might, or perhaps not so differently.

Isn't it the language that's missing? There are games involving circumlocution and interruption, where the players try to abnormally interrupt or beat around the bush.

Natural classroom interaction makes for the best use of these devices IMHO.

Rob

Progress | Robert Haines | March 3rd, 2004

Dawn M., you also wrote:

"At this level they don't learn only Business English as they are still hurdling over the elementary stages."

Having taught so-called Business English for a few years in various contexts, I've come to believe that it's nothing more than what we often refer to as General English, Integrated Skills, etc. with a focus on specific lexis, e.g. jargon. Unfortunately, BE intimidates teachers who've "never done it", because they think they'll need special training.

So I'm not sure we can really separate the two other than to say one might focus more on specific lexis.

You also wrote:

"One of the problems is that the firm has been paying for English lessons for quite some time and have just about had it with the folks that make up this group. You see, they are the ones who have not been able to progress acceptably and they have been given many chances. It's an international company and these folks are mainly from customer service and simply need to be able to converse adequately."

The idea of progress implies a system of measurement. How has it been determined that these folks aren't measuring up, and what/whose standard(s) are they not measuring up to? Again, can you share this information?

Rob

Refining circumlocution | Jake | March 3rd, 2004

Thanks, everyone, for their comments so far. I enjoy hearing about all of your different working contexts.

I'd just like to refine the notion of circumlocution, as from my understanding it's slightly different than what's been proposed.

Circumlocution I don't see as a 'filler.' The usual em, ah, er I think of as fillers. They serve as a means to 1) hold the floor or maintain one's interactional turn, and 2) allow for some time to collect one's thoughts to produce just the right word.

The purpose of circumlocution (other than dodging political bullets) is to paint a verbal picture of something the speaker hasn't got the right word for. Without the L2 vocabulary, the L1 speaker describes the characteristics of the 'thingy' or 'stuff.' I think native speakers employ this strategy when there's a word on the tip of their tongue, so they describe it the best they can in a round about way.

I'm very curious about other fillers like ya know , cuz , and I mean , and like . Are these considered fillers or is there another term for them? Does anyone teach students these fillers? (The movie Valley Girl comes to mind). Anyway, they seem to serve a different purpose than ah, em, er . They seem more like cohesive devices that keep the speaker and listener on the same page and in agreement about the topic of converation or at least the expectation of agreement/shared knowledge.

Cheers,

Jake

Paraphrase | Dominic Marini | March 3rd, 2004

Dawn,

This is Dominic (CP) in Japan. I am also working on circumlocution: in particular paraphrasing. I'm at the Dissertation stage now, but I wanted to write to you because I was struck by what you wrote about your students "It is important for me because I find that Polish students, esp. adult learners, might refuse to speak altogether for want of a word." I was surprised because this is exactly what happens in Japan: a speaker will just stop talking! I find this bizarre (that's why I choose to study ways of teaching paraphrase). Perhaps because I am more outgoing, or grew up speaking French (as a second language in Montreal) and Spanish (with my relatives when visiting Spain) with different degrees of fluency, as well English (my main language) so I needed to paraphrase from a young age. Anyway, I just wanted to share with you the knowledge that the stop-talking phenomenon occurs in Japan: so it's not just a Polish thing.

Another aspect of the Japanese phenomena is that, when speaking Japanese, if I don't know a word said to me and I ask the Japanese speaker for an explanation in Japanese they will almost always attempt an English translation, even if I explicitly ask for paraphrase in Japanese (!) How about in Poland when you are speaking Polish. Can people paraphrase meaning in Polish?

All the best,

Dominic
Dazaifu-shi, Japan

Re: circumlocution | Dawn | March 3rd, 2004

Thanks everyone for the fab response. Let's see if I can just answer everyone right now before little Benji awakes.

1. Jerry--thanks for the game idea. I have actually used different types of card games that were among those things that actually worked. I don't know the one you mentioned though- Jake?? Where can I find that?

2. Rob- you quoted me: "I know pretty well the causes behind the seeming impossibility of these particular students to learn English and circumlocution is just one of many methods tried, tested, failed or succeeded." I'd be interested to know what those pretty well-known (to you) causes are. Can you share them?

Well, there are many issues that I'll try to put in a nutshell because I could go on and on (literally). One of the biggest problems is that they feel too 'old' to learn a language. Although they are in their mid-forties (only) they feel they have had all the learning they should have. Besides that, there is a feeling of failure that is tied intimately to Polish pride and so when one doesn't know what one is told one should know, it is a kind of 'shame'. This shame can either motivate a person to excel or can cause a barrier than is seemingly insurmountable. Add to that the fact that working and studying is no piece of cake at any age plus the stress from the ultimatum given by management to actually learn this language and one could begin to see their sorrows. I won't even mention previous bad experiences associated with learning English and especially Russian nor will I go into the after effects of communism. These are just some of the reasons they've either given or I have observed.

Rob you also wanted to know how the students' progress is measured. Well, apart from regular tests, a very practical 'test' is given. It has happened that, for example, a top manager from head office called and was not able to get any info from the customer service department because no one could communicate with him. He ordered their immediate dismissal but the local management intervened in their behalf. The same goes for important clients. At the end of the day business is business.

Jake: you mentioned that Circumlocution I don't see as a 'filler.' The usual em, ah, er I think of as fillers. They serve as a means to 1) hold the floor or maintain one's interactional turn, and 2) allow for some time to collect one's thoughts to produce just the right word. ...The purpose of circumlocution (other than dodging political bullets) is to paint a verbal picture of something the speaker hasn't got the right word for.

Your definitions sit right with me and I actually see that we are in agreement on that. Let me then try to make a case for why I see fillers as a part of circumlocution. As I said in my first mail on this topic, students may shut up altogether if they can't find 'the right word' to use. In this time you don't know if they are thinking about it or they just don't know. Using em, ah, er shows the listener that the speaker will go on. Otherwise, the silence can be deafening and is at least very frustrating and uncomfortable. If that were to happen on the telephone, you can imagine what problems it could cause. Believe me, it makes a difference to say something. I'm glad Dominic understands me and feel he would support me on this one.

Dominic wrote: Another aspect of the Japanese phenomena is that, when speaking Japanese, if I don't know a word said to me and I ask the Japanese speaker for an explanation in Japanese they will almost always attempt an English translation, even if I explicitly ask for paraphrase in Japanese (!) How about in Poland when you are speaking Polish. Can people paraphrase meaning in Polish?

Oh yes Dominic, people try to explain in Polish until they realise that my Polish is better than their English :-) I usually let it go although I must admit that sometimes it's very funny because then I have to try to understand the English explanation!! Speaking seriously now, it happens less often as most people know I have a Polish husband.

Thanks again Pinkies. If I haven't answered all your questions please let me know. Ben has woken up and I know you understand the demands of a seven month old!

Dawn M

MET-motivation | Robert Haines | March 4th, 2004

Dawn,

You are indeed in a challenging context. It seems some of your students' suffer from a lack of intrinsic motivation. There seems to be plenty of instrumental motivation from their employer, but we all know how ineffectual that can be (not always, I know).

It sounds as if testing is required and expected where you teach. Have you tried giving tests or quizzes that test what the students know instead of what they don't, in order to boost confidence? Perhaps the tests are standardized, but could you design something to boost confidence by demonstrating to students that they are in fact competent at some level?

Do you have an opportunity for tutorials?

Best of luck,

Rob

Re: circumlocution | Tom Bloor | March 6th, 2004

Dear Jerry

BTW, I think your earlier email defining "circumlocution" as "beating around the bush" was exactly right; i.e. it has strong pejorative connotations. It isn't a technical term in linguistics and for all I know it may be widely used in the sense currently circulating in tesptesol emails, but it seems strange to me.

Best

Tom