Language Learning & Teaching
Language learning & teaching | Maria Leedham | January 18th, 2005
Better get back to lesson planning for tomorrow and possibly thinking about Diss....
Can I throw in an additional question first? For anyone out there learning a language currently, how has this affected your teaching? I started learning Spanish in September and feel much more in tune with students' group feeling, e.g. you've had your 'turn' at answering and you wait for someone else. Or if someone says the Q is difficult you don't then want to jump in with an answer. It's great teacher development to be on the learning side too
Maria
Re: Language learning & teaching | Jerry Talandis Jr. | February 1st, 2005
Howdy. Maria recently threw out this question:
For anyone out there learning a language currently, how has this affected your teaching?
I live in Japan, and I've learned a lot from the process of studying Japanese that I've been able to apply to my English teaching. Most of all, it gives me a point of solidarity with my students. I often regale them with tales of my own struggles. I do this to show I understand what they are dealing with, and that I'm right there with them as they learn. One theme that runs through my stories is that language learning takes emotional courage, and that a strong inner motivation is needed in order to overcome the various barriers. For example, I tell them of when I first arrived, fresh off the boat, and tried to go shopping. I HATED not being able to tell the difference between this soap or that, and not being able to ask which is which made matters worse. I would avoid shopping just because I didn't want to go through the hassle of figuring out how to say the simplest little thing. Of course, you have to engage with life, so eventually I mustered up enough courage and tried to face my fears. Through this process, I gradually gained confidence enough to speak.
Stuff like that...
Any other experiences out there on how studying a language has influenced the way you teach?
Jerry
Re: Language learning & teaching | Rita Balbi | February 7th, 2005
My experience is the opposite; I gave up a course of Portuguese because after spending twenty years on trying to teach a language getting students involved, I could not stand a course based on "read and translate" and continuous interruptions to clarify grammar.
I did not give up Portuguese, however. I just found other ways.
Rita
Re: Language learning & teaching | Mike McDonald | February 7th, 2005
Funny, that reminds me of a passage in Skehan's "A Cognitive Approach to Language Learning" (p. 65), where he mentions a diary study of R. Schmidt's learning of Portuguese in Brazil (Schmidt and Frota 1986). Schmidt's experience seems to have been similar to yours.
Mike McDonald
Re: Language learning & teaching | Maria Leedham | February 7th, 2005
I think it's possibly MORE frustrating to go to language classes if you're also a teacher because you know how it can be done! I had a 'conversation partner' once while learning Japanese; the idea being that we meet for two hours and speak for one hour in English and one in Japanese. This worked very well for me as I could try things out and tap into her NS knowledge i.e. be my own teacher with a NS as a resource! And we became good friends.
Language learning to me feels like excellent professional development too.
Maria
Re: Language learning & teaching | Jerry Talandis Jr. | February 9th, 2005
I have to relate to Rita's experience, and with what Maria wrote:
I think it's possibly MORE frustrating to go to language classes if you're also a teacher because you know how it can be done!
I'm remembering a similar experience when I attended a Japanese class conducted by local university teachers. It was stupefying listening to them ramble on and on, and I kept comparing this sort of teaching to the kind that we are trained to do. In addition, looking at Japanese language texts made me realize that there's a good business opportunity to someone who can adopt basic communicative techniques found in most English language materials. Wouldn't it be great to learn a language using sophisticated materials? Seems like all the "tech" goes into learning English, but other languages stick to the old ways.
Jerry
Japan
Re: Language learning & teaching | Dawn Grant-Skiba | February 9th, 2005
I agree both with Jerry and Rita. After trying to learn Polish with a native who is an ELT teacher, I had to give it up prematurely. I just couldn't help comparing her methods to my own and the way I was trained. She wasn't able to answer my questions and was always apologizing.
Funnily enough though, when a native English speaker gets here, everyone expects him/her to be able to 'teach' ESOL without the need to be trained at all. So, I actually took the opportunity to point out, to whomever is interested, the fact that although English (or Polish or any other language) may be a person's L1, it doesn't necessarily qualify him/her to become a language teacher! What I did to learn Polish was just get some textbooks and juggle on my own. As a result, my spoken grammar is not especially good but I'm able to communicate in every situation. Thankfully.
Another thing is that I often wonder too, Jerry, why it is that hardly anyone seems to care about how other languages are taught. Even for the more popular foreign languages such as German and French, the number, scope and quality of textbooks and readers, etc. are well below the level that we are used to in ELT. Being trained in Business, I do understand financial constraints but somehow that can't be the only reason, can it? I'm currently trying to challenge my Polish husband to make a difference. He's not a teacher so he's not very keen but...
Regards
Dawn
Poland
Re: Language learning & teaching | Jerry | February 10th, 2005
Hi Dawn,
I'd like to reply to your last message.
Another thing is that I often wonder too, Jerry, why it is that hardly anyone seems to care about how other languages are taught. Even for the more popular foreign languages such as German and French, the number, scope and quality of textbooks and readers, etc. are well below the level that we are used to in ELT.
Yes, I agree with that. That's basically what I was trying to say before. It does seem that "nobody cares", although I'm sure some folks do. It just seems that all the effort and focus has gone into English language materials.
Being trained in Business, I do understand financial constraints but somehow that can't be the only reason, can it?
Yes, economically speaking, the market for English language materials is huge, while the market for "smaller" languages is obviously less. The Profit Motive kicks into gear, and naturally, all the best minds and efforts go to where the gold is. But you're right, I don't think it's the only reason. I can't really put my finger on why English materials are far and away (in general) better than materials for other languages. Does anyone else out there have an answer for this question?
I'm currently trying to challenge my Polish husband to make a difference. He's not a teacher so he's not very keen but...
Good luck! Working together you can do it! :-) Create the first "Task-based learning" textbook for Polish, and you're rolling in dough! Quality for fun and profit.
Here's wishing you big bucks,
Jerry
Japan
Re: Language learning & teaching | Jake Arnold | February 10th, 2005
Hi all,
Just on this subject of being critical of our teachers as we learn a second language. I don't believe that we should have to teach our teachers BUT there is this whole idea of negotiation in the classroom. If we can have a negotiated syllabus, can we not have negotiated methodology? I too am involved in a language exchange with a teacher who has had little training and we get on fine by telling each other what we want in / from the class. Helps if you know you're teacher quite well I guess ...
Comments?
Jake
Re: Language learning & teaching | Rita Balbi | February 10th, 2005
In my experience with teachers of French, German and Spanish in Italy, I have noticed that they have a different approach and grammar is their priority. I am aware of the fact that at beginners' level, grammar is more demanding in those languages than in English, however I think they could benefit from the research conducted for English and many of the activities commonly found in English textbooks could work for other languages too.
Rita
Re: Language learning & teaching | Jerry Talandis Jr. | February 11th, 2005
Jake, I like your point about negotiation between teacher and student. In my experience I've found that students find that empowering, as long as you don't go overboard (some students here in Japan think it's not their place to get involved in curriculum decisions and feel uncomfortable when asked to join in). It's just a basic thing- communication- that creates a good teaching/learning situation. Personally, if I had a student who really knows what they want, I'm happy because it's so much easier to teach them. I they are clear about what they want, and I give it to them, everyone is happier.
Rita, you said that teachers of French, German, and Spanish in Italy could benefit from research conducted for English. Have you ever come across any materials that you thought did this? Or is it all old-school grammar/translation/PPP?
Jerry
Re: Language learning & teaching | Rita Balbi | February 11th, 2005
I am not aware of specific materials trying to transfer to other languages the research done for English, but, as I said, this might be useful. In my opinion the easiest thing to do would be to design teaching materials incorporating opportunities for cooperation, choice, risk taking. Two examples or anecdotes, as you prefer: a group of our teachers of French teaching the 11-14 age group attended a course in France: When they came back they told me (surprised and enthusiastic) "do you know that it is possible to teach French through art?" I did not show them a cupboard of artwork produced for English in primary classes!
In 2002 we conducted a survey on how languages are taught, interviewing teachers. One question was: do you use the target language as a means of communication? Most of the English teachers said they tried as much as possible using various strategies to elicit comprehension; the teachers of French and Spanish said they used Italian otherwise "students would not understand". Now, can you imagine Italian students understanding English and not understanding other languages deriving from Latin?
Rita
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